Single Y stepper mod

[PaulS]

just another reason why i converted to a single Y motor. Anyone else doing this? i know the Z mod is all the rage but what about y? I wanted to maintain direct drive across both rails so this was my idea. anyone got pros and cons before @csorrows pings me for trying to hijack a thread LOL IMHO this kind of wiring is not ideal for performance so recommend single motor or split the 2nd motor to another driverif you have a spare like E1

[csorrows]

Yea, it's whatever. I guess it's kinda OT?

[Ron]

I have some aspirations for moving to a single Y motor as well, but it isn't a priority for me.
Nice setup.

[PaulS]

well maybe if someone (@csorrows) wasn't distracted by the shiny old ps2 i would have gotten some useful feedback the last time i posted this TGIF my friend, glad to see you have your thinking cap on today LOL

[Ron]

Thanks.
I have something similar in mind but would mount the jack shaft out the back of the frame and mount the motor in close proximity if not inline (double shaft motor).
Not as "neat" as yours perhaps, but should be workable.

Yes, TGIF.......

Oh, and oddly enough wiring the two motors in parallel is somewhat beneficial.
This is because their winding inductances will add together to cut the overall inductance in half.
That allows faster current rise and fall, and therefore faster current chopping rates while not increasing back EMF.
But none of that makes any appreciable difference if you are sourcing 24 volts to the drivers. It only makes a difference at 12 volts.

Wiring the motor windings in series however gets you the worst of both effects because they will both add, effectively doubling both.

[Dave]

anyone got pros and cons before @csorrows pings me for trying to hijack a thread LOL

Hey @PaulS , want to make a thread for this? It's worth a discussion for sure, and it will probably get lost in this thread since it's a tangent.

[PaulS]

sounds like a good idea. where is @csorrows when ya need em?

[csorrows]

So ya want me to split this? That's easy. Let me grab my sonic screwdriver.

[csorrows]

well maybe if someone (@csorrows) wasn't distracted by the shiny old ps2

[Ron]

Squirrel?
As in squirrel?

I have a copy of this posted on my wall at work.
Every time someone is wasting my time waffling about something I point to it.

BTW, I have a very nice, low inductance 23 frame double shaft motor that is just aching to be used for a mod like this.
Hmmmm..........

[csorrows]

Squirrel?
As in squirrel?

Yup, tha'd be the one.

[RockRDR]

Is there a write up for doing the individual motors I do have a spare port for another motor. or how to setup a single
stepper?

Thanks

[csorrows]

Is there a write up for doing the individual motors I do have a spare port for another motor

@djcdude95 posted it on his page.

http://dustincorbin.weebly.com/blog/folger-tech-ft-5-dual-z-stepperendstops-mod

or how to setup a single stepper?

There are many ways to do this. Use the search function at the top right of the forum.

[Dave]

Is there a write up for doing the individual motors I do have a spare port for another motor

@djcdude95 posted it on his page.

http://dustincorbin.weebly.com/blog/folger-tech-ft-5-dual-z-stepperendstops-mod

Wouldn't pretty much any of the mechanically linked Z options be better than this though? Single motor or dual, you would eliminate flexing of the bed plate by mechanically linking them. Using dual motors and independent endstops seems like a bandage for the symptoms, rather than a fix for the problem...

(Some of the same reasons are why the single Y-stepper is an appealing mod.)

[Ron]

Wouldn't pretty much any of the mechanically linked Z options be better than this though? Single motor or dual, you would eliminate flexing of the bed plate by mechanically linking them. Using dual motors and independent endstops seems like a bandage for the symptoms, rather than a fix for the problem...

Bingo........
That's why I converted mine to be linked during the initial build process.
I never liked or trusted the dual Z motor setup and had no wish to deal with it.

The dual Y motor setup on the other hand is far more difficult to get out of sync because of the carriage stiffness and even if skewed slightly the effects would be much, much less drastic than when (not if) the two sides of an un-linked build plate get out of sync.
And that was (I think) @RockRDR's original question (the Y motors).......

[Dave]

Thanks @Ron , I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

For the Y-axis, I think there is still some risk to the factory setup, just a bit different. I could see a case where a wiring issue or fault causes the steppers to go different directions (or one stalls/holds) causing racking. I don't know how strong the steppers are, or whether the melamine plates would yield first or not, but either way it's not good to be torquing the axis like that. That was the biggest red flag to me in the independent Z system as well... you better be darn sure you have your Marlin configurations correct and both Z endstops functional, or one half of your bed is going to screw itself right to the top while the other half waits.

@PaulS - Do you have any more photos or details on this single-Y mod that you could share?

[Ron]

Yes, there is still a risk, but it is perhaps not as bad as you may think.
The X rail is of course very stiff, so no problems there.
The Y rails themselves are also very stiff, particularly along the Y axis.
So the weak links are the rail sliders and their attachments to the X gantry 20x20 rail.
You could knock it out of parallelism with the bed if you tried, but the screws that hold the sliders to the melamine plates (and the plates themselves) are actually pretty strong.
So yes, you could rack it, but under normal circumstances that is probably not a huge concern.

The reason I am considering a single Y motor mod (other than the "gee whiz" factor) is that it should reduce acoustic noise because both sides will be driven simultaneously by the same jack shaft and because the belts can be run tighter (heavy jack shaft bearing blocks).
Maybe, maybe not, but worth a try IMHO.

That was the biggest red flag to me in the independent Z system as well... you better be darn sure you have your Marlin configurations correct and both Z endstops functional, or one half of your bed is going to screw itself right to the top while the other half waits.

Yes indeed. There is a lot of thrust available with those lead screws.
If one side were driven up while the other side was driven down, something is going to bend or break for sure.

[PaulS]

@Dave here are some pics. certainly not saying this is the way to do it and to be honest after replacing with maker713 gantry kit may be totally unnecessary to drive reom both sides as there appears to be no more y deflection what so ever. Even when i manually try to move y ends in opposite directions it takes a good bit of effort before Y will bind up . I tried a few different config \s but settled on this as it was light weight and still gives me max travel while allowing for enclosure. Like @Walter , i did not what the y motors inside. Currently wiring for dual aero setup but may go bowden for full heated chamber. still so much to do but i like the positive drive on both sides to a single motor just like the z mod locks the axis in place anyone see any flaws please let me know... :)

[PaulS]

@csorrows i would kill or die to know what John would think of what i have done to his creation... LOL

[csorrows]

@csorrows i would kill or die to know what John would think of what i have done to his creation... LOL

John loves when people mod his products. You would be surprised how much of it he considers implementing in future revisions. His products are meant as a starting point to be modified by the end user to fit their needs.