DIY aluminum replacement to Melamine components (FT-5 R1)

QuakeDragon 2022-05-19 21:07:19 UTC #1

Using a somewhat modified FT-5 R1, and the melamine parts are just not cutting it anymore.
Seems I cannot get everything from 713 maker either, so I am to the point where I want to get accurate part dimensions and have a professional machine shop take care of the rest.

The problem is, I cannot seem to find drafts of accurate dimensions of the melamine parts. Unfortunately, mine have been modified and butchered to the point of no return and I'd have to make some guesses on exactly what I need to do.
Yet, I see on this forum a lot of old posts of folks who have DIY'd the parts.

I was wondering... can I get any CAD drafts or accurate measurements for the purpose of replacement? There is a word doc with the parts laid out, but there are no measurements or scale to those.

commonlogic 2022-05-19 23:55:15 UTC #2

Have cad drawings but never completed the prints, also did some mods you can see here:
http://folgerforum.com/t/ft5-1-upgrade-to-what/2588.
So I have not all parts that you would need.
Here is a sample for the mounting of the y stepper

Can make more but need a little time.
Also I do not want to get in the way if folgertech gets back in business.
I like their product, got their delta also
Ron

commonlogic 2022-05-20 03:54:42 UTC #3

Ok, updated the print, made it a little to quick.

Left of the dotted line is the turn around mount/tensioner in my design, match center hole to bolt size
Both replace FT17/18 in the ft-1 version.
y-mount is 1/4 thick on mine to be able to reuse screws, you choose can 1/8" which is strong enough,keep bolt size change in mind.
Not clear in the design is a spacer under the bottom of the lead screw, 3mm will let you change the belt without big realigments

QuakeDragon 2022-05-20 22:38:15 UTC #4

Nice! Thanks! The FT17/18 are certainly the biggest problem for me right now.
I noticed in your draft that the motor mount is fixed and has no room to slide. A̶r̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶d̶j̶u̶s̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶e̶n̶s̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶m̶o̶v̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶h̶o̶l̶e̶ ̶b̶l̶o̶c̶k̶?̶ ̶O̶r̶ ̶d̶o̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶f̶i̶d̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶z̶i̶p̶ ̶t̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶h̶o̶l̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶l̶t̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶c̶e̶?̶

With using the 7/8 hole saw getting sufficient space to allow the motor to have any slide leeway is going to be hard, but I suspect not impossible. Since this happens to be the most problematic part, I think I'll take the plunge and (try to) make it myself, much like you have. This drawing is going to help a lot. Thank you!

Edit:I re-read and now better understand you've got a tensioner in this design, but I'm not quite understanding how it works.

commonlogic 2022-05-21 06:07:19 UTC #5

The tensioner is the now on the front side of the printer, that is where you mount and move the idler pulley, the part left of the dotted line. like the opposite part of FT17/18 has the slot.
Loosen the top/bottom to slide and tension.

Part here is showing without the holes.
I made all my parts myself, using a small $90 drill press and a $110 stationary belt sander.
Should have bought them 15 years sooner, how to make life easy!
Holesaw used: https://www.amazon.com/4-Piece-Tungsten-Carbide-Titanium-Plated-Stainless/dp/B09DL83WN3/ref=psdc_256292011_t3_B01I416Q90 or something like this.
Use 3 in 1 oil to lube. Also get a deburring tool.
One big improvement was the tapping of the end of the extrusions and using button heads to pull it all together.

This is the X stepper mount, make from 1/8, 3/36 or 1/4"
Looking at my Y to X axis mount now
Let me know what other parts you like/need.
I am on limited time before I go out of town for a good bit
Ron

csorrows 2022-05-23 07:37:58 UTC #6

As this is a closed source product, CAD files, even user created, are not allowed on this forum.
I have had multiple conversations with John of Folgertech about this and he wishes to maintain control of the original design.

Please find another way to do anything involving the original design outside of this site.

Note: CAD files of consumer modified parts ARE allowed. But, they must have been modified for a reason other then just trying to make them different. This community supports modifications and improvements of the design, but we do not support piracy.

QuakeDragon 2022-05-24 19:52:00 UTC #7

Understood. I had no ill intent, but your point is clearly made.
I'm grateful the forum will allow the redesigning of parts with the intent of improvement. And that this forum resource is still here despite the closing of Folgertech.

QuakeDragon 2022-05-24 20:30:58 UTC #8

Oh! Now I Get it. Actually I really like that design change. Adjusting tension up front rather than having to work from the back. Neat.

I will also tap and secure the 20/20 in the same manner. I can see that it'd improve the rigidity significantly, and should be pretty easy to do. You mentioned using M6, but isn't the 20/20 center hole designed for M5? I might be wrong, so I will look at it closely tonight. Otherwise I assume I'll have to both drill and tap.

I'll use my cheap benchtop HFT drill press and a common belt sander to do this work. (I just mount the belt sander into a vise to make it stationary.) Currently waiting on delivery of a set of Metric drill bits, as I've only got SAE, and the big x/64ths kits are expensive.

Ok. I'll grab a set of de-burring bits tonight and implement these changes this weekend!
Thanks a million Ron! I think these are the most important parts for fixing this and getting it going straight again.

commonlogic 2022-05-25 00:59:57 UTC #9

Just checked a piece of 20/20, hole size is 5MM, so M6 is needed
If you mod by the design shown the whole unit will stand as is without corner braces.
You would need two 20/40 pieces the same length as the y-rail mount.
The bottom z-mount is the center front 20/20, as shown missing in the tension mount print.
2 Pieces of 3" wide plate are mounted on the bottom, this will solidify the built.

Just noticed a discrepancy in the prints, different hole sizes for the stepper bolts.
Oh well, drill small, if it does not fit you can go larger.

Crorrows, these prints I made 3 years ago, was never intended to publish anywhere.
I am well aware of copying designs, after all I worked in China for a serous amount of time (years) since 1995.
Have seen my share of that.
QuakeDragon looked for commercially available parts like 713 first and since he had wear problems on his machine
I thought I could help here, no other supplier and he was even willing to pay for components.
Btw,I am not making or selling anything.
Is there a other way I can contact Quakedragon?
Ron

QuakeDragon 2022-05-25 15:57:43 UTC #10

I just used the forum message function to share my email address, so hopefully that feature is working.

S̶o̶,̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶m̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶s̶u̶r̶e̶ ̶I̶ ̶u̶n̶d̶e̶r̶s̶t̶a̶n̶d̶,̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶r̶e̶p̶l̶a̶c̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶r̶o̶n̶t̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶r̶ ̶b̶o̶t̶t̶o̶m̶ ̶2̶0̶/̶2̶0̶ ̶x̶ ̶5̶0̶0̶m̶m̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶m̶a̶t̶c̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶2̶0̶/̶4̶0̶ ̶x̶ ̶5̶0̶0̶m̶m̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶n̶?̶ edit: Oh, now I understand. From this:

I suppose it does make more sense that way. More surface area to ensure it fits tight. I'll get some of those on order also. I might end up having to make the 3in floor plates out of plate steel, since aluminum is getting so absurdly expensive at this point.

I was going over your hotend modifications. With your motor on top of the rail, have you seen any issues with mild layer shifts? Specifically, the linear rail having a small amount of wiggle, forward and back.

The melamine hotend parts I had broke during my initial assembly of my FT-5 r1, so I had a co-worker print me out a basic copy of the parts, as they would appear when fully assembled. (this was like, 7 years ago.) From there, having a solid plastic motor mount helped, but I still saw that front-back wiggle happening sometimes. I added a second linear rail to the bottom of the 20/20 X axis. This change effectively eliminated all the back/front wiggle and it was reflected in the print results.
It also allowed me to keep the underslung direct-drive motor-to-hontend as was OEM.

commonlogic 2022-05-25 18:33:30 UTC #11

Just left you a message with my mail.
The floor plates do not have to be this big, four 3 x 3" squares will do fine.
About the hotend; I have not printed enough to notice, guess mine is not broken in yet.
I was looking into a dual rail also but was thinking one on top and the second on the front, this way it is easier to align.
Connect the two slides together with a 1.5" angle and then tighten the rail bolts
My thinking was to mount the stepper mass as close to the slide as possible.
The X rail did not fit under the 20/20 so top it had to be.
Having the stepper under is better for the force on the Y-slides

csorrows 2022-06-02 10:56:33 UTC #12

Sorry if I came across a little aggressive with that, I was just trying to make a clear statement.

I have had the talk with John multiple times and he is quite clear with his wishes.

John greatly supports modification and improvement of the design. As do I.

Keep up the great work!

Yup. It is partially supported by my handful of patrons. The rest I pay myself each month. The forum has a lot of passive traffic that you don't see. It's become quite a resource and I see the value in keeping it up.

csorrows 2022-06-02 14:05:15 UTC #13

You are good. I just wanted to get ahead of it because of the original request, not because of your replies.

If there was anything that I felt crossed the line, I would have removed it.

csorrows 2022-06-02 14:08:21 UTC #14

Yes, it's a shame about the melamine. We have low humidity here where I live and it has stood up fine. This is not so in a lot of locations. The ACM was a drastic improvement.

commonlogic 2022-06-03 00:28:56 UTC #15

(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged)

csorrows 2022-06-03 00:59:06 UTC #16

Yes, I read all of the posts. Everything is fine. Carry on

commonlogic 2022-06-03 01:32:52 UTC #17

Ssorrows, can you delete this previous post?
Got a hard time getting used to all the options.

No, all was good on your reply.
Reread the post about restarting FT, that was be good.
http://folgerforum.com/t/any-sign-of-folger-tech-reopening/2858.

That is why I was hesitant about posting cad info but good to hear improvements are welcome.
If I was smart I would not have bought the kit but paid for lunch for a co-worker every time I needed a 3D print.
Would be saving $$ for the next 10 years, but where is the fun in that.
So how do I tag 3D Printing Guru in this, he was working on his FT-5 R3 version.
Liked some of his mod options

QuakeDragon,
Made a better view of the bottom area.
Showing 2 different spacers 1/4 for the guide rod and 1/8 for the lead screw.
The 20/20 Y-Rail mount rest directly on top of the 500 mm guide rods, this sets the spacing fairly good.
The 2 different spacers allow you to replace the belt without massive re-aligning the lead screw.
After all has been aligned you can even hot-glue the nut in the T-slot in place
Option is to only have a 1/8 spacer but the lead screw needs to be shortened by 3/16 to 1/4" then.

Highlighted line is the belt used in FT-5 R2, I believe 1140mm?

Here are 2 bolts pulling the frame together, front bolt is used after these two are locked.
you got to go back and fort a few times, well I did.
The whole unit felt solid when when assembled without cornet brackets.
Like to hear if you see a difference in print quality
I have no reference since I modded from the start.
Will send you a email with a metal version of the Y-slide to X-rail when I get it done.
Was thinking this is the next delicate area.
Ron

csorrows 2022-06-03 02:01:37 UTC #18

@Ron

Just like that. It will pop up an autofill list of members as you type it. Starts with an @.

I pushed multiple times to use end threading on the frame of the FT-6 while I was designing it. It is far superior to just the bracing.

commonlogic 2022-06-03 02:08:30 UTC #19

@csorrows Aaahh next time
Sorry, old fart learning