Any sign of Folger Tech reopening?

Tin_Falcon 2021-09-27 00:31:25 UTC #1

Has anyone heard from John or Had any contact with the company?
The web page is up and running but is seems like most items are out of stock. Printers have been out of stock i am thinking for like two years and it says 4-6 week delivery out of stock well temporarily shut down due to the pandemic.
The last blog post was Dec 2018.

It seems like there should have been some announcement to the future of the business by now.

concerned
Tin Falcon

csorrows 2021-09-27 21:53:54 UTC #2

Judging by what I know, I think there is very little chance of things going forward with the company.

Covid-19 pretty much killed it.

Tin_Falcon 2021-09-27 22:05:09 UTC #3

That is unfortunate . I know of plenty of similar companies that were able to be designated as essential and move on.
3 d printing medical devices driven by the pandemic created a huge opportunity. I know many companies had to reinvent the way they do business.
Guess we just need to push the hobby/ industry forward the the best we can .

Ron 2021-09-27 22:16:46 UTC #4

I agree, it is most unfortunate.
Perhaps it is time to move on the R3 version in some manner.

csorrows 2021-09-27 22:31:00 UTC #6

Yes, I would love to do that. My life has gotten complicated and busy as of late, which is why I have kinda ghosted the forum for the last couple months.

Basically, because of the product prices, the company ran on a very small profit margin. When covid hit, the state started offering very increased unemployment payments. Because John could not afford to raise everyone's paychecks to compete with what they could make on unemployment, they left. This, combined with the terrifs on the Chineese sourced parts he used, pretty much did the company in.

John tried to do it himself but was unable to. He did grind alone for months to get the last ordered kits out.

Don't take any of this as absolute fact as I have only crafted this story from little bits and pieces I have gathered.

Ron 2021-09-28 16:43:43 UTC #7

I feel your pain.
I have been in much the same situation myself for most of this year thus far, but things are slowly opening up.
I also greatly respect and empathize with the situation that faced John, and that he at least tried to fulfill his existing orders.
That was very good of him to do.
The consumer 3D printer market is a very tough market to start with.
And the state of the world at the moment does not help.

Tin_Falcon 2021-10-03 16:31:48 UTC #8

Ron IMHO i am not sure the "consumer" market ever really existed. The hobbyist market is definitely there . Or call it the Maker Market if you like. There are printers marketed to the average joe or jane consumer. but i do not think we are quite there yet. Ether the price is too high or the printer is more trouble than it is worth for the consumer.

Ron 2021-10-04 16:43:16 UTC #9

I agree that "consumer" was perhaps not the best choice of words on my part.
"Hobbyist" would have been better.
However there have been multiple attempts at consumer-grade printers.
For example- Makerbot, Flashforge, Prusa (by his own words) and especially Dremel (toward the higher end).
Plug-in filament cartridges, plug-and-play unboxed functionality and other features to make them toaster-like have been tried.
However it is entirely true that the consumer printer market never took off as it was overly-hyped to do.
And perhaps it never will.
I think that the closest we may be seeing in that regard these days is the resin printer market.

So to refine my earlier statement a little bit, the hobbyist printer market has been and still remains a tough market to break into.
There are likely too many players in it already and I believe that we are seeing somewhat of a market shakeout in progress.
So unless something were created and marketed that would be truly a cut above, FDM printers are likely to remain at most a niche product.
Just my $0.0002 worth...

Tin_Falcon 2021-10-04 19:30:33 UTC #10

well stated . Also IMHO while some manufactures are constantly trying the improve reliability and usability other seem to want to race to the bottom with cheaper product. And invariably one or both of the other items stays stagnant or suffers.

Tin_Falcon 2021-12-03 00:07:15 UTC #11

The web site has been down for at least a month.

Ron 2021-12-03 16:21:30 UTC #12

It is a genuine shame and not at all a good omen.
Over the upcoming holidays I hope to finally get serious about the R3 files that were shared with me.
Perhaps then FT, or at least the designs, can live on as a limited venture of some sort.
Something similar to the various framing kits that exist on eBay and elsewhere (mix and match printer part kits).
I think it would be a nice legacy.

csorrows 2021-12-03 16:37:40 UTC #13

Yes, I would love to see the R3 design become what the FT-5 series should have been, not the cost cut versions that we got.

I'm not at all snarky about it one bit...

Ron 2021-12-04 16:08:06 UTC #14

I completely understand the constraints that John was operating within.
He had a price point to hit and bills to pay and did what he could.
Frankly, I think that he did rather well.
In addition, the technology was what it was at the time the original was released.

Tin_Falcon 2021-12-04 17:15:36 UTC #15

IMHO a lot has changed in the 3d printing market since the release of the FT5r1
10 of my observations.
1) core xy design has become more popular.
2) There are more open engineered DIY plans available.
3) Kits of above plans are starting to surface.
4 ) boards have changed
a) more available I/O
b) Better drivers /more options
5) extruders are better geared heads
6)hot ends more options
7) more experience in general
8) less tolerance for the status quo
9) better faster printers are the results.
10 people are tiring of race to the bottom cheap printers.

Ron 2021-12-04 21:00:21 UTC #16

I totally agree with you.
I would add a few observations of my own.
1) CoreXY is indeed great, but Hbot as I have on my FT5 also works very well (if done correctly) and is quite a bit simpler. That said, either one of them are better (IMHO) than the original drive setup on the FT5.
2) Control boards are readily available in 32 bit versions that will outperform the original 8 bit boards hands down. And they have many more features in general.
3) Motor drive options are so much better and more varied now that it is difficult to even choose among them.
4) Hot ends and extruders are far, far more advanced now than back then. It is not necessary to spend much money at all to get very much superior examples of either as compared to the originals. I am partial to geared extruders and Volcano-style hot ends and would never even consider using the originals again for example.
5) My own FT5 and so many others on this forum are testaments to being intolerant to the status quo.
6) Automatic bed leveling and tilt mapping compensation... Need I say more?

Unfortunately, this all makes a printer manufacturer's life difficult

csorrows 2021-12-06 09:58:27 UTC #17

I'm referring to the mechanical design itself. As I was the engineer trying to hit John's wishes, I am aware of the vast amount of changes that were made to lessen the cost. I can only speak of the FT-6 as that is the only one I designed from the ground up.

Yes, lots of part changes were made as well, but that was not the part that frusterated me the most. It was the constant cut of materials and the usage of pre-existing parts from other kits which I do understand. The kit could have been much better without so many changes. Per my market research at that time, there was more retail value that could have been used to offset the costs. There was quite a large gap between the kit costs and anything else on the market of that size and capability.

Ron 2021-12-07 19:14:08 UTC #18

Somehow I was not aware that you were that deeply involved in the original FT5 design.
Kudos to you for an excellent design, and yes it was what it was at the time.
It certainly ticked all the boxes for me as a first home printer and has served as a great platform to build from.
But having designed products and pieces of products myself I definitely feel your frustration over the changes and economies that constrained you.

When researching printers in general at the time of purchase I could clearly see carry-overs from earlier designs (such as dual motors on the Y and/or Z axes), extruders and hot ends, as well as the control boards, PSUs and displays.
As I have said many times before, for me it came down to a choice between the FT5 and a Tevo Tornado and I am so glad that I went with the FT5.
However, I came very close to just designing and building my own from scratch and had delayed my purchase for several months while debating doing just that.
My preferred design would have looked virtually identical to what my FT5 ultimately has become (except of course that some components weren't available at the time, those pesky constraints again...).
In the end I decided to essentially buy a "kit of parts" in the form of the FT5 to at least get started at home.
I had been having parts made on Stratasys machines at work for years at that point so I understood the process well.
I for example have two items at my desk serviing as paper weights right now that I had printed about 18 years ago on one of them.

Anyway, hopefully the FT5R3 can be brought to market in some manner in the near future.
I work with contract manufacturers who may be able to help and have resources of my own that could perhaps help you as well.

Tin_Falcon 2021-12-07 22:22:22 UTC #19

Every one journey is a bit different.
I started with a used Sollidoodle 4 I still have it. I leaned to print on it, witch apparently can be a bit difficult. At the time affordable kits were not readily available . and pre build new were relatively expensive. My second was a FT 2020 that I picked up directly from Folger tech. about year later I built the FT5 and since then have purchased some pre built units.
I have considered scratch built but the time it take to design then source all the parts. Seem a bit whelming for me.

Ron 2021-12-08 17:28:04 UTC #20

Exactly.
That is the reason I did a LOT of research and chose a "kit of parts" that was closest to what I really wanted and built from there.
I figured that if nothing else it was a place to start from and lot easier than separately sourcing everything at the time.
And of course I also looked into the support groups and forums for the printers and liked this one the best (thanks again Chris!).
But my FT5 has never been "stock" even from day one because I belted the two Z motors together while constructing it.
Now I only run one motor for Z, one for X+Y, one for X-Y and a pancake motor for extrusion.
They run at a 2.5:1 reduction on the Z lead screws, a 1.25:1 reduction on the XY motors and approximately a 3:1 reduction on the extruder.

Tin_Falcon 2021-12-09 00:44:15 UTC #21

My fT 5 got an aero/titan mod from day one. I later upgraded the gussets And added a custom machined knob on the controller.
I also made a solid aluminum extruder mount as the stock melamine seemed a bit flimsy. Even though the instructions tell you to built as stock first.
Sometime machine building/collecting and modding can be as much of a hobby as 3d printing.